I Want to Masturbate with Other Guys

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One of my biggest lusts and longest lasting fantasies has been to masturbate with other guys. Not have sex with them, not experience any kind of touching or penetration whatsoever — just jack off together, in full view of each other, with no shame, as casually as we would watch TV or fold laundry.

While I used to think this fantasy was absolute proof of my homosexuality, I’ve come to realize that this is actually a fairly common interest among men, both gay and straight.

I’ve found this out by discovering loads of websites, social media groups, and forums centered around men — presumably straight — masturbating together, having sex with women together, and doing plenty of other recreational activities together, sans clothing.

I’ve also talked with several of my friends and acquaintances, both SSA and not (although most of them SSA), and they’ve told me that masturbating with other guys has long been a fantasy of theirs — or, at least, they’ve considered it. That doesn’t mean they would all do it if given the chance; it just means they would be tempted by it, and it was a fantasy for them.

I’ll admit: I still struggle with this sometimes. This is still a temptation I dwell on in my thoughts or want to click to on the Internet.

And yet despite my masturbation fantasies, I don’t want to have sex with another man. Isn’t that interesting?

Apparently, there are a lot of guys out there who identify as everything from the queerest of gay to the straightest of macho who have some level of curiosity about jacking off with another dude. And they don’t all see this as a sexual desire.

I didn’t.

I still don’t. It’s not really a sexual desire. It’s an innate desire, masked in sexual expression.

When I’ve fantasized about either being caught or seen by another guy while masturbating, or about masturbating with another guy, my desire was never toward sex. I’ve never wanted to have sex with the guy.

Instead, I’ve imagined him walking in on me, looking at me, being there with me, seeing what I’m doing, and either being totally nonchalant about it or praising me. That nonchalance, that praise, would’ve meant he’d accepted me as an equal. It’d have meant he’d approved of me.

This fantasy of masturbating with other guys is and always has been rooted in a hunger for acceptance, approval, validation, and love from my male peers.

But why masturbation? Why not fantasize about winning a football game or starting my own business or discovering a cure for AIDS to gain the favor and approval of my gender-mates? Well, I do fantasize about other things, of course (although never football), but they don’t hit my soul quite the same way as masturbation fantasies do.

Being naked and exposing my sexuality takes one of the deepest parts of my inner being and puts it out on display. There it sits, that representation of my entire being, on its little pedestal, begging for validation.

Group sex, group masturbation, cyber sex, sexting, porn — I believe what drives a lot of men toward these things, regardless of their sexual orientation, is a desire for their peers to look at the deepest parts of their souls, their sexuality, their fully exposed selves, and smile and say, “Yeah, man, you’re awesome! You totally have what it takes!”

I want a man to get naked with me for the purpose of proving to me that he is comfortable with me and wants to be vulnerable with me, that he trusts me, he loves me, and desires to be intimate with me.

This has nothing to do with sex. Sexual behavior is just a perceived, albeit false, means of satisfying this deeper craving.

I want to be counted as one of the guys. Don’t we all?

I want other guys to look at me and completely accept me and approve of me. I want us to have something in common, something we share, and for us all to be fully aware of it, aware of the bonds that hold us together.

So many guys feel that they don’t have what it takes to be one of the guys, to receive that coveted Man Card that so many other guys seem to be born with.

Guys will try all kinds of methods of getting that approval, to feel like real men: they carouse, they womanize, they drink, they work hard, and they win football games, they start their own businesses, and they study hard to hopefully one day make some grand discovery like a cure for AIDS, often in an attempt to validate themselves as real men.

And some men who have SSA get their need to feel validated as men mixed up with their sexuality and try having sex with guys or masturbating with their friends to feel that sense of intimacy, equality, and approval.

Not every man is good at sports. Not every man is rich or self-employed, pursuing their dreams in life. Not every man is going to discover something great. We’re all very different with very different experiences in life.

But we are all men, we all have dicks, and nearly all of us are quite familiar with masturbation. For those of us who have felt like outsiders most of our lives, that most basic piece of similarity is what we often cling to in a desperate effort to feel connected to our gender-mates. It’s what makes us feel like men, at least for a few minutes until the camera shuts off, the porn video ends, or we orgasm, and the fantasy is finished.

This is not a sexual desire. This is a desire to feel like men, to know that we are men, which is a healthy and good desire, and it’s what God wants for us.

Let’s make this distinction between the true desire and the most convenient method of feeling that that desire is getting satisfied. Let’s not believe that this true desire is evil; let’s instead declare at the tops of our lungs that jacking off to fantasies, with friends, and on webcams is not going to meet that need within us!

This has been one of my biggest struggles with lust and fantasy.

It’s not based on sex or homosexuality, but rather an intense need to know that I am a man, that I am an equal with other men, that I am accepted, loved, and approved to the core of my being.

It can be hard to see the truth sometimes and even harder to find what really fulfills that need and rely on that without resorting to my own methods.

I don’t want to end this post by just saying that I am still in the middle of this struggle — but God is good, amen. Basically that’s what I’m holding onto here; it’s the faith that, even though I am in the middle of this struggle, God is not done with me yet. That’s true.

Even though God knows all of this mess I’m in, all of the perversions and lies and fantasies I’ve entertained for almost the last twenty years, he has never turned his back on me or been disgusted with me.

He knows about all of the times I’ve jacked off on webcam and fantasized about guys jacking off with me, and he knows why I did those things and held onto those fantasies.

But he doesn’t want me to just stop fantasizing and doing bad stuff and then grit my teeth and suffer due to my inner lack for the rest of my life.

He knows the needs that fueled my desire to do those things, and he wants to fulfill them.

He wants to show his power in my weakness.

Do you ever fantasize about or desire to masturbate with other guys? Where do you think this desire comes from? How do you think God can fulfill this need?

* Photo courtesy iSnapshot, Creative Commons.

  • Bryan

    I have desires and have actually masturbated with other guys over webcam. I believe this desire comes from having that natural desire to fit in with other guys and be “one of the guys”. And for me, that has never been something that I was. I’ve always been the outcast from other guys. So to get that male-to-male attention, I have to turned to other ways to get that. I know that it’s not right, but it’s a desire that burns in me since I don’t have any guys that I could actually build a deep and personal relationship with. It’s something I’ve prayed about God removing this SSA and desire to be with other guys but still something I struggle with.

    • Kevin Frye

      I think there are certain desires within us that God doesn’t remove, and it’s for a reason. We may hate these weaknesses of ours, these longings, and beg God to take them away, but he lets them stay. I think a lot of these things we hate about ourselves are actually good things that God made for us to appreciate and enjoy. A lot of men hate their sex drives, even their penises, and wish God would just take them away. But those things are not evil. And this desire we have to bond with other men is not evil, either. We just need to learn how to manage it and get it satisfied properly.

  • JB

    HELL to the no lol !! I was always scared of being made fun of or having the smallest dick in the group if I ever did that (although objectively & statistically, that shouldn’t be the case :P). But after being bullied from age 7-20, being the last to be picked for any team sports, tortured by my older “jock” brother and cousins, etc., the possibility of being shamed or made fun of, even as an adult, still haunts me at 46. Even after becoming a “success” as the world sees it (I’m an eye surgeon), I still can only picture myself as a loser, shunned by everyone (although again, objectively, I’m very popular at work, etc., make everybody laugh, feel good about themselves, care and show empathy for everyone). Subjectively, I guess I just still feel like a little nerd, “faggot”, “pansy”, “pussy”, “scrawny little weakling” (though lol, at 255, definitely not scrawny :D) and all the rest of those names I was called. I have felt like no matter what I ever did, I would never be able to grow up and be a man / be “one of the guys” / be included. Being an outcast growing up, with that fear, isolation, and loneliness, still torments my self-image, even though yes I know God’s image of me is much different and eternal. I guess it’s just the leftover pain that Satan wants clinging to me, to drag me down. Anyway, I just can’t even believe anybody would ever want to share an intimate experience like that with me. And that hurts. But there’s other reasons for that as well…….another time.

    • Kevin Frye

      I’ve been called a lot of those names myself and been rejected in many of the same ways. Those things hurt. But the idea that those things define us now is a lie. We must choose to reject that lie and hold to the truth. People do love us now, they do want to be intimate with us, and they want to be vulnerable with us. I have to believe this.

    • Martin O

      JB, I can relate to your childhood. Always the last one picked and rejected by father/brother/grandfather, I felt and sometimes feel inadequate as a man. I have had great success but the deep need for connection from Man is real. In my 40s I often feel like that awkward kid that was unacceptable.

  • Jim Roberts

    Kevin, you are a wise man. I do believe the roots of that desire is not itself sexual or sinful or even depraved. I appreciate you “going there”, exposing your true needs to us. I sincerely prefer THAT to watching you jack off.

    I literally can get “a show” from one of a hundred guys at any time online. But what man in my life will reveal his heart to me like you did? I only have maybe two or three – and each live over 500 miles away. I am blessed to have them!

    My struggles? I don’t think I ever fantasized about “just” jacking off with other guys. I wanted the sex. In my teen years (when I was really messed up), I would fantasize about being them. Living their lives (being popular, good at sports, connected with family, attractive to girls). Everything I didn’t have – and that was easily sexualized as wanting to please them – consume them. Clearly a “perversion” with roots in legitimate needs. But obviously a practice that in of itself added to the shame and loneliness – or at least I imagined it would.

    Even though I have “made it” in many ways as a “man”, I still often feel inferior. Especially with “normal” guys at church. I belonged to a men’s fellowship group for ten years. But being purposely left out of “guy activities” after the meetings and listening to men talk about their marriages – and their loving wives – was a huge trigger. And those comparisons turn into self-hate. With a mix of envy and jealously too. Gee, when did I first feel that? 10? 13?

    I’ve recently had a few things “out” with God. I blame him for orchestrating the circumstances that make me feel so impotent in life. That “I” word is tough for men to admit isn’t it? But online, with a cam, I am never accused of THAT!

    • Kevin Frye

      I agree that finding a man who is boldly vulnerable with his friends is like finding a diamond in a coal mine. Once that kind of man is found and vulnerability happens, it’s hard to turn that into something sexual. There’s respect there, honor, and to sexualize that would be such a loss of something so much greater.

      I’ve had it out with God about quite a few things myself, but I keep coming back to my faith in him as a good God. I know that he is bigger and wiser than me and that this life, this world are not all about me and for my happiness. There are things I’ve felt deprived of and experiences that have left me feeling impotent, but I have to believe that there is something bigger going on that I can’t see and I have to trust God and push through.

  • naturgesetz

    My fantasy isn’t about masturbating with other guys. It’s just about being naked with them. It has been satisfied a couple of times with a friend whom I met through blogging and then irl. When I learned that he, like me, enjoys being naked, I suggested that he could visit me and be clothing optional. On his first visit he stayed clothed, but on a couple of later visits we were both naked — watching the baseball game on TV, cooking and eating dinner, just being around the house. There are other specific individuals I’d like to do the same with — a couple of cousins who both go naked on their own, and some other people I like. The fact that it’s only guys may have to do with being SSA, but it may also just be a guy thing. It certainly has nothing to do with wanting sexual contact. It does seem to be somehow affirming of one another. It would have been nice to get naked with TMZ when he couch-surfed at my place, but my prudish big brother was around, so it was out of the question.

    • Brian

      That’s very similar to my situation. Pretty much 99% of my fantasies involve me being naked with other guys. But like Kevin said, those desires are apart of wanting to feel like being one of the guys. It’s not because I wanna have sex with them. But that’s harder to find than it seems as most straight guys are super prudish about being naked with other guys and then there are other guys who have less than platonic intentions when they reach out to you about hanging naked.

    • What a suggestion that would have been, N. While I wouldn’t have thought ill or less of you for such a notion, I’d have politely declined. I’d already hung out with a nudist on my road trip to that point. Not my thing.

    • Kevin Frye

      I get that, too. I also love being naked, and this, I’m sure, has nothing to do with sexuality. There are plenty of straight guys who love being naked, too, and I think it’s just part of wanting to be equalized with other men. It creates a kind of instant brotherhood. There’s no shame in it.

  • mike

    Great post Kevin! I admire your candor and intricate probing for answers. Yes, why do we naturally eroticize our brokenness? Why sexualize our aloneness? Is more same sex togetherness the answer? More male bonding a solution?
    I think God makes a big deal of it. “It is not good for the man to be alone”. But woman doesn’t solve it! No such promise there yet. Instead it is worse! After the deep sleep man is now somehow incomplete. And sex is the way back to his original oneness. Sex and incompleteness go together in the creation account.
    But now after the fall it’s worse! The man is now broken in his genetics and in his nurture gone wrong sometimes badly. And sexual pursuits are the natural drive built into us from creation as an involuntary attempt to become complete and fill the missing pieces. It is how I understand my neurotic drive for completion and why it’s eroticized!
    As a struggling compulsive masturbator my fantasies reveal my void. But masturbation did not heal it. It only made it worse by underscoring my aloneness. Masturbation was a symptom like a cough of an underlying pathology. Suppressing the cough with medication isn’t the answer. And you’re right one shouldn’t feel ashamed about the void or the involuntary sexualized drive attempt to fill it. But sexual attempts aren’t the answer.
    I see the greater purpose of the woman at creation to end the man’s aloneness and void by birthing the Savior. Jesus would end the aloneness by making His home in us to fill that void now and forever.

    • Kevin Frye

      Excellent points, Mike! Thanks for sharing.

  • Malcolm

    Wow this is such a brave post! I really appreciate your no holds barred honesty. I agree with everything that you say. The first gay internet pornography that I saw many years ago was videos of guys masturbating. At the time that I looked at it, I was aware of the fact that I was looking at it in order to compare myself to other guys and affirm my “normality”. We want to see that our bodies are the same as other guys bodies and that our sexual responses are the same. Like you said, its all about trying to feel like you are one of the guys. When I first saw that pornography, I believe that it was with fairly pure motives — I just wanted to know that I was like other guys. Of course it didn’t stop there, I eventually got into worse pornography which is something that I struggle with to this day.

    • Eddie

      “Of course it didn’t stop there, I eventually got into worse pornography which is something that I struggle with to this day.” Therein lays the trap. Pornography ensnares you first with innocent or naive curiosity, but after growing accustom to it, it’s no longer exciting. Like a drug, it is then you want to up the ante and seek out other more rousing and erotic imagery to satisfy yourself.

    • Kevin Frye

      I hear ya, man. The first time I looked at porn, it was for the purpose of learning what sex was, because I honestly didn’t know. I wanted to know how sex worked, and also what a grown man looked like nude. I wanted to see what I would look like one day. These are all normal, innocent desires for information that I couldn’t get anywhere else at the time. Sadly, porn was leaps and bounds ahead of the church in the realm of sex education then.

    • Barry Smith

      Malcolm–Interesting that my first downfall was also watching videos of guys masturbating. I tried to justify it and I really enjoyed it, but I found that it became an obsessive desire and not healthy. I had to stop entirely and have found freedom from it since then. Thank you for being so honest and vulnerable in your posts.

  • Brian

    Wow this post rings so true. I too have never fantasized about having sex with men, but mostly just being naked with them and masturbation with one at the worst. I totally know that feeling of wanting to share your utmost intimacy with someone without having it be about sex. It’s such a deep longing.

    • Kevin Frye

      I’ve wanted to be naked with guys, too. I still do. I see nothing wrong with that. It’s a desire for equality and brotherhood. Nudity has long been a normal part of human life, only fairly recently discouraged and sexualized in Western culture and societies.

      • Brian

        It’s really fascinating to see America’s gradual changes in attitude towards same gender nudity and how it’s a recent development. Naked same gender swimming at schools and YMCAs was common until the mid last century and how gang showers are pretty much non existent. It’s such a shame because men don’t realize they’re losing such a bonding element.

  • Eddie

    When I went home to compose my reply in my journal, I was torn as to how I wanted to reply to this post. My uncertainty stems from how I wanted to present myself here. Even in cyberspace under the guise of anonymity, it is still a bit unnerving to be vulnerable about one’s sexual proclivities. Being a more down-to-earth kind of writer, I will say that I have not fantasized about or desired to masturbate with other guys. For the sake of sparing this post of intimately sexual or potentially graphic detail, I am going to refrain from sharing my masturbation fantasies here. I will say that yes, I do have masturbation fantasies (you’re not alone Kevin), but they are a bit different from what is mentioned above.
    In regards to Kevin’s quote:
    “I want a man to get naked with me for the purpose of proving to me that he is comfortable with me and wants to be vulnerable with me, that he trusts me, he loves me, and desires to be intimate with me.”

    I too want to experience the “nakedness” with a man or a brotherhood of men. Are we talking naked in the literal or figurative sense? I suppose I have gone both ways in my life. I did manage to go on a men’s retreat once as I exposed some of my own personal demons to a group of strangers. I have also been vulnerable with my close college guy friends about issues surrounding masturbation. Both times clothed. Alternatively speaking, I’ve been physically naked with some other guy friends while enjoying skinny dipping excursions in the ocean. These outings, however, really never lead us to engage in any kind of soul-searching or introspection with one another. We just enjoyed each other’s camaraderie in the water without the hindrance of clothing.

    As to this desire and its origins, I would cite Maslow’s hierarchy of needs specifically the third level relating to love and belonging. This is part of our human condition of wanting to belong and associate in our attempts to thwart the threat of perpetual isolation and subsequent depression. God can fulfill this need by allowing us to take on His Spirit that allows us to love and desire fellowship with one another absent of any pretention. We are to be instruments of His Will and His Will is to love one another.

    • Kevin Frye

      Well said, Eddie. I believe there is value in both physical nakedness with our gendermates as well as nakedness of the heart with them. Of course the heart kind is more important, but the physical kind can be a nice boost and can lead to a greater bond of the heart.

      • Eddie

        It’s all relative. I suppose we could experience both forms at the same time. For me, I probably wouldn’t be entirely comfortable at first, but I assume over time I would grow accustom. Your masturbation standpoint somewhat throws me a bit as I’m inclined to explore other channels of connecting that the same purpose you stated: “proving to me that he is comfortable with me and wants to be vulnerable with me, that he trusts me, he loves me, and desires to be intimate with me.”

  • Despite my online stumbles into chat rooms, I’ve never had this fantasy with “real-life” male individuals. I do, however, experience curiosity and longing and loss for spontaneous moments of nudity with male friends growing up. I can’t help wondering where that would put me today.

    • mike

      An interesting “longing” Tom! I’m not sure it would have helped… perhaps hindered even more?
      For me, sleeping naked growing up with cousins a lot, seeing their boners, and more only increased my appetite for it and I think contributed and increased my SSA later on :(.

      • Kevin Frye

        Understandable. I’ve heard both sides of the issue. Some guys say that casual nudity growing up scarred them for life, while others say the absence of nudity scarred them for life. Can’t with ’em all, I guess.

        • mike

          “Ham, the father of Canaan, saw his father’s nakedness”
          What did Ham see? He was punished for it and his brothers avoided it. There’s a lesson here.
          Guys showering together naked in the locker room is common even in adolescence. This can be innocent and healthy seeing my dick is sort of normal compared to yours. But, what is not innocent is seeing something sexual as likely Ham saw. That does damage especially to the pre-pubescent boy like in my case. I think that’s the difference.

    • Kevin Frye

      As do I, Tom. I think it would have done me a lot of good.

  • This is hard to write but I feel I must. Only more recently have I thought about masturbating with other guys and debating on whether this would be OK or not..and if so, what context? My conclusions are that it would only really be a helpful situation is if this was experienced with someone you have history with in friendship. I don’t think it would be OK for it to be a frequent occurrence either.
    I learned this the “hard” way because not that long ago I actually did for the first time masturbate with a stranger. I found it comical honestly and not a big deal. I guess curiousity can get the best of ya sometimes. And now that I’ve done it, I know that its not really beneficial for me unless it’s used to strengthen an already existent friendship.

    I think the desire definitely comes from the desire to connect in a more vulnerable way with other men. I do think that if I were to masturbate with a friend that wasn’t SSA, it would bring affirmation on a deeper level. I do believe God can meet our needs in many ways..sometimes through people, sometimes not. So I’ve recently resolved not to seek what I feel and method I think is best when a need arises…instead to turn to God first, talk to Him about it and then ask for wisdom on what it looks like in that moment to fill that need. Because there are so many different ways that I’ve experienced that work depending on the circumstance. It really is unique each time and depends on what the scenario is at the moment.

    Lastly, I’ll say that just this last weekend, I visited a nude resort. This was way out of my box but I felt like it was time to do so in the journey that I’m on. It was a great experience for me! I wasn’t triggered at all and had no problem not sexualizing anyone(maybe because there weren’t really any younger guys my age there?). It was very peaceful and healing to be vulnerable like that. It built confidence in my own body and just being a guy. I think if I were able to do this with trusted friends, it would take things to a new level. But nudity is a hard thing to talk to straight guys about without any freak out or misunderstanding. Maybe eventually that will happen?(here’s hoping!)

    • Kevin Frye

      I’ve gone back and forth for years on the righteousness and wisdom of masturbating with another guy. Sometimes I think it’s not a big deal and could actually be beneficial, but other times I think the whole notion sounds insane and there’s no way I could engage in that without regretting it, and rightfully so. In general, though, since this is definitely a morally risky endeavor, and it is entirely unnecessary, I think it would be wiser to abstain from masturbating with somebody else. I feel it may also be morally wrong, but I’m not going to make a concrete statement about that, and I wouldn’t judge anyone who has jacked off with another guy.

      I had my first healthy nude experience with other guys in a YMCA locker room and shower. I wasn’t with anyone I knew, but it was still a good experience for, one that I repeated many times since then. Now that I live in Japan, I enjoy going to the public baths from time to time. I’ve gone with friends and guys from my church, and we’ve all seen each other naked, and it was fine. It’s been a very helpful and affirming experience for me.

      Indeed nudity is hard to talk about with other guys, but you might be surprised how many other guys want to talk about it or maybe even try it, but they’re too scared to bring up the topic. I say suck it up and say it, man! Honestly begets honesty. Even if the other guy doesn’t want to get naked with you, he’d have to admit that you’ve got balls for bringing up the topic. He might even try bringing up topics of his own that he’s kept hidden for a long time, if he trusts you.

      • I agree with you guys and have felt both sentiments. I’ve never masturbated with another guy though it is something I too have thought about in the context that Kyle mentioned – to strengthen an existing friendship. Interestingly Kevin being that you’re in an Asian country -that’s where I first experienced nudity- bath houses in Korea where I went with close friends and it has been amazing! I’ve been 4 times and the level of intimacy and vulnerability it has created has been indescribable! My Korean friends have become some of my closest. Here in America though it’s so taboo because everything is sexualized and that is frustrating. But to your point, there is guy I work work – a total ever straight guy- and he even knows of my ssa and HE mentioned it to me as an idea that some co-workers could do “as a bonding experience” and I was shocked! Not the masturbation part but going to a spa together and getting “as close to naked as possible together”. I told him I was down for that. Some other co workers were down too. Ironically a Korean co-worker is the hold up. HE says he’s uncomfortable with it! Haha! We’ll see what happens and I’ll let you know. 🙂

        • Kevin Frye

          Way cool, Jaye! I’ve never had anybody express any kind of discomfort about getting naked with me. All the men at my church know of my SSA past and they’ve never had any qualms about it. The only guys I know who have ever expressed any negativity about me getting naked with other guys were guys who, I think, are put off by nudity in general, regardless of whether SSA is present or not.

          • Interesting to be how Asian cultures are much more open to the idea even in such a shame based culture. Anyway, thanks so much for writing this post! So glad you’re my other brother!

  • C. Marque

    Wow Kevin! You give me so much to think about! I like how you openly confess that this is what you (and most of us) fantasize about. Yet, you’re not necessarily saying we should all just go do it! 😛 I like to take all these weird, sometimes undiscovered, desires, and even ssa as a whole, to God, and take an honest look at them. I’m also reminded to thank God for these struggles, because I know I look at life completely different because of them! It’s amazing what a crazy strong desire for affirmation from other guys will do to us! I know I’ve tried to be weird and vulnerable with other guys for the sake of encouraging them, and making them think hard, but I’ve be re-challenged after reading this. 🙂 God is so Good! If it wasn’t for His Mercy and Grace, I’d have messed this all up in so many different ways!

    • Kevin Frye

      Thanks, C.! I’m glad you were encouraged and challenged by this article. Yes, God is good, and I feel much the same way about myself as your last line states.

  • Sam I Am

    Kevin, your posts are always spot on and reflect my thoughts, experiences, and research into SSA. For me, being caught actually happened. My closest friend and I were roommates for several years. He wouldn’t be caught naked, however I was (and still am) always naked within the confines of my house. Our opposing view of modesty at home was occasionally a topic of conversation to which he would respond that he didn’t understand my desire to be naked. I, however, recognized his extreme modesty to be rooted in male insecurities. I didn’t want to push him on the subject, though, because he was extremely defensive about it. Then one morning it happened; he caught me. It wasn’t planned; I realized while I was masturbating that he could very well catch me. My door was unlocked, he never knocks, and he might be waking up at any moment. I didn’t get a thrill from the possibility, but I also didn’t bother to lock the door. I heard him walking down the hall, he opened my door, watched me for a few moments. Then he asked “Did you brew any coffee?”, I replied “Yes”. He then turned around headed the kitchen. After that point he relaxed his modesty and was either in his boxers or briefs or naked most of the times he was home. He later told me that moment was a turning point in his sexual development and helped him realize that he is normal and it wouldn’t bother him if I or other guys see him naked. He even stated that he would be OK if I “caught him”. He is now happily married with kids.

  • bluzhawk

    I’m really late to this and I’ve put off commenting cause I’m at a loss on how to give it any good context. I’ve wanted to jerk off with other guys too. It’s not just being naked around other guys, which can be innocent and healthy and fun. Something about jerking off which makes it personal, and especially that moment of orgasm when you’re vulnerable, that’s the connection I’ve wanted to share. And honestly, that connection would be more for me if we were jerking each other off, not just sharing being vulnerable but causing it.
    I think I’d sound stupid if I said it’s not sexual for me, but I have no desire to do anal or oral or even kiss another guy.

    I sure wish that I could say this desire was more than just sin but at best it just seems like missing out on what’s good. Maybe that deep connection is meant to be with God alone and looking for it with another guy is just my lame way of avoiding going deeper with God and all that means.

  • Buckdipper

    This is my first comment on this incredible blog site. I go by “Buckdipper,” Some of you who frequent menforums.forumatic.com may have read some of my articles on that site. I am in my early 60s and have struggled with SSA issues for over forty-five years. However, I have been celibate all my life, solely by the grace of God. I came to know Jesus as my Lord and Savior as a freshman in college and was “radically saved,” as one brother described it. If God had not saved me at that early age I would have given into the cravings that controlled me and jumped into the gay lifestyle, hook, line and sinker. Praise God, he gave me the grace to resist some of the most grueling temptations imaginable. Only through Him would this have been possible. Over the years I have had many victories in my battles with SSA. My levels of SSA are now a fraction of what they were when I first came to know Christ and, as I have matured in Him, a significant level of OSA has emerged from within as well. Indeed, I came close to marriage rather recently – sadly, it did not work out. I still struggle with temptations but I am rarely tempted to engage in actual penetration with other men. On those rare occasions it has largely to do with the fact that it is nearly impossible to find the kind of friendship we espouse here on this blog and at Menforums (at least for me). Satan sometimes puts into my mind the following troubling scenario: since non-sexual intimacy with men is nearly impossible to find in our modern-day culture, a gay relationship is the only easy-to-find alternative. Thankfully, sodomy is not only repulsive to me morally but also aesthetically – it is physically gross and crude. It also robs a man of his dignity. However, most of my temptations – also rooted in my inability to find legitimate non-sexual intimacy with men – have to do with engaging in forms of sexual activity that do not involve penetration. I cannot tell you how much I relate to what you have to say, Kevin, and also to what all of you have shared in your comments. I have experienced most of what you have poured out so eloquently. Let me say, though, that masturbation with other men is playing with fire. It can (and frequently does) lead down the path to full-fledged homosexuality. When setting boundaries regarding man-to-man intimacy, it is always best to err on the side of caution.

    I’m sad to say that everything said here about the disappearance of traditional male communal nudity is true. I am old enough to have experienced it back in the days when gang showers were the norm and steam rooms were usually nude. All that has changed, even in the YMCA, which, until the new millennium, was the last bastion of old-fashioned male nudism. In its heyday as an Evangelical Christian organization, you could go skinny dipping at the Y and attend a Bible Study there on the same day! Now, when Y’s are remodeled, the trend is to put in individual showers and move the steam room out into the pool area – coed with swim suits required. There are still some men’s steam rooms around, but I just learned the the Y in Lancaster PA is now requiring men to cover up in their steam room. A sad state of affairs, I must say. To the gentleman who wrote that he had recently gone to a nudist resort, I can tell you that I understand why you did so. A nudist resort is about the last place left where men can be socially nude together. Because of the presence of women, however, most orthodox Christians would consider full-fledged nudism unacceptable. The other side of the coin is that the presence of women (and families) at a nudist park or beach is what staves off homosexual activity. The gays have taken over the traditional men’s skinny-dipping spots, poisoning them with blatant sexual activity. Although I do not publicly endorse mixed-gender nudism, I can certainly understand why men who need to bond with other men au naturel would embrace this option. What I can tell you is this: if you visit a nudist resort, don’t tell your pastor!

    Buckdipper

  • Barry Smith

    This has been my biggest fantasy and desire since my college days. I have been married now for over 30 years, but in college I masturbated with a couple different buddies. It never went any further than that. We never touched each other or had any homosexual experience with each other. We each had a girlfriend. It seemed to be a bonding experience that we had as guys. We watched each other and affirmed each other. We were great friends and prayed regularly together but being naked with each other seemed to take our friendship to a deeper level. We have each been married now for many years and have never done this while being married, but I confess that I still have those desires to masturbate with another guy. I continue to seek the Lord and trust Him for future purity.

    • Kevin Frye

      Do you feel masturbating with your friend helped or hindered your striving toward purity, integrity, and spiritual growth? Did it have any effect at all on your relationship with God?

      • Barry Smith

        I can honestly say that after that experience I continued to seek God and pursue my relationship with God strongly; however,I felt guilty about this experience because at the time I didn’t know if it was right or wrong. Now, years later, I don’t want to be branded as a person who believes in ‘situation ethics’ but I now believe that in certain circumstances if I masturbated with another guy and I had impure motives and overwhelmingly lustful thoughts that it would be totally wrong and completely inappropriate. On the other hand, I can imagine another scenario in which as Christian brothers in a different setting minus raging hormones and not having a desire for each other sexually that it might not be a big deal at all. It depends on who I did this with. For example, if I was rooming with another guy and I knew that we were both passionate about our walk with God and living in purity, not in porn, and that we were in the Word and praying together regularly, etc. but it more or less spontaneously happened after showering or getting up in the morning that it wouldn’t be necessarily evil or sinful. Does this make sense to you Kevin?

        I want to reiterate that this is not something that was a ‘regular’ pattern in my life. This never happened with anyone I didn’t know or knew very little. It happened only with deeply trusted friends and these were friends for which neither of us had any sexual feelings for each other. (In that way, it wasn’t as much sexual as it was bonding and affirming). I would also state that I believe that if this became something that happened over and over in a repeated pattern or if it was a habit, that it would be wrong. I saw it more as a one time curiosity, exploratory, bonding experience. At no time were we ever frotting (touching each other’s penis). It happened, we acknowledged it, and moved on. It became a shared experience that was part of our history with each other. I would be interested to know if you can understand this?

        Even though it has been many years now since this happened I now think about two of my current buddies that I have known for 15+ years that are deep and passionate Christ-followers (neither of them have any SSA tendencies). Each of them is a pastor significantly younger than myself. It is almost more of a mentoring relationship. I meet individually with each of them on a weekly basis and we share our lives together and often pray together. I often think about how nice it would be to have a one-time experience of masturbating with each of them. It would satisfy a deeper longing in my heart to “know” and “be known.” Since I know that neither of them have any SSA it would not be a sexual thing but a deeper bonding experience. I am quite sure this will never happen but it is something I think about. So tell me—am I totally screwed up?

        • Kevin Frye

          No worries, Barry. I can absolutely understand what you’re saying here. Honestly, I’m still torn on the subject. Is masturbating with a friend wrong? Is it good? Is it neutral? Is it just bad for me to do it but fine for other guys? I don’t know. I have jacked off on webcam with a Christian friend of mine whom I’ve never met in person, but we had known each other for years before then and we still keep in touch and talk from time to time, and I wouldn’t say that our masturbating together had any real, negative impact on our relationship. What does God think about this, though? I really don’t know for sure. So, I think it’s best to avoid. Still, I can’t judge others and say that it’s universally wrong and that everybody has to be ashamed for jerking off with their friends. I can see how good might come from it, and that, especially if the guys are very young, it can be done in sincere innocence.

          • Brian

            Just curious Kevin, was your online Christian friend SSA too?

          • Kevin Frye

            Hmm… It’s hard to say exactly. I would say yes, he had/has some unhealthy SSA going on, but he knows that he’s not gay and he doesn’t accept his SSA as normal or healthy. He’s like a lot of us, I guess; He knows that there is a healthy and good kind of love, admiration, appreciation, and attraction to men, but that there is also a perversion of that, and he tries to remember and be clear about that distinction.

          • Brian

            Ah okay. I was wondering because I’ve been thinking about if one were to do it maybe it would be better to do it with a straight guy rather than an SSA one? Just some thoughts I’ve been debating in my head.

          • Mysterytome

            So just curious, do you think your friendship with him changed afterwards? Would you do it, or have you, with him again? Do you guys ever talk about it?

          • Kevin Frye

            We do talk about it sometimes, but we don’t talk with each other much at all anymore. Just a few times a year. And we just lightly mention having seen each other’s dicks. That’s about it. I think we actually jerked off on camera together just once or twice, but I don’t remember exactly how many times. And no, I don’t want to do it again. Our friendship has changed, but not because of doing that together. Life just changes and it changed our ability to keep in touch.

  • WaveDave

    Thank you for this fine post. I confess I have done this a number of times with other guys…guys I did not even know their name. It often happened while traveling alone…and “gaydar” kicked in. In those vulnerable moments, I fell for finding fulfillment in relating to others beyond a handshake. It wasn’t sex I wanted, but just to experience a closeness with other guys that I longed for. In the end, those times left me empty and alone…and I am trying to learn that Jesus is a friend who sticks closer than a brother and will be there no matter what. Whether I will ever have a friend I can do such with is an open question though…

    • Kevin Frye

      Do you want to masturbate with a friend again?

  • Arjun

    I found your blog post google searching this desire I have had forever, and not sure where you stand on religion entirely because I haven’t read enough from you just yet, but I have most definitely have had and have these desires. I am young and in college, and also very gay, and pretty masculine (I would like to think we live in a world where femininity/masculinity of a man does not take away from the self-identification they choose to make, but not yet apparently).

    The acceptance of my sexuality earlier in my life (Note: I grew up in Dubai, so that was not easy and I am so grateful I had an earlier start that many younger gays don’t get) and lack of knowledge of sexuality from people around me naturally initially led every straight man to believe that I was into him. Furthermore, my non-sexual desire to masturbate with my close friends was viewed as lust for them, leading to destruction of relationships with my best friends. Those are mended now that they’ve understood me further and since, have had masturbation experiences with them,

    BUT, I do think that men need to be able to do this more and need to find a forum of sorts in cities to be able to find men to be able to do that. Does it have a chance to be exploited by gay men who are “straight-bating”? Sure, us men are a horny folk. But, in today’s world, you must be sexually comfortable with yourself enough and know what you’re going for by reaching out on a forum to find other men to masturbate with. Regardless of your sexuality, you should be able to accept your brothers’ too, and be able to draw your own lines in a safe space. Also, it would lead to such an acceptance of men within each other. “No homo bro” would be taken out the picture cause so what. Penis size envy and performance anxiety would change. And like you mentioned, things that other men do to feel accepted such as womanising, carousing, would be for the better cause it wouldn’t be a competition to treat another gender incorrectly to feel accepted by your own. As a young man with a lot of testosterone and strong sex drive, I do think that a lot of social problems that exist in the world stem from male ego and our inability to get over it. I face it too, even when I get into relationships, I find myself questioning or accepting the “man or woman in the gay relationship” bullshit. Women that wear the pants in heterosexual relationship and men that take care of their children aren’t any less of being men and women!

    That’s my little spiel. If you know of any forums, let me know. I jack off way too much to be doing it alone and my flatmates and I should just have a circle sesh before bed over a beer.

    • Arjun, glad you found us via the Google! That’s awesome. Thanks for sharing some of your unique story with us. How fascinating to grow up in Dubai like that. I agree (as I’m certain most/all of my other brothers here would) that we need a masculine revolution. Maybe it starts with us? Of all people? We hope you’ll stick around and hear more of our stories . . . and hopefully share more of your own.

  • Mysterytome

    Kevin, your post completely resonates with me. I’ve been seeking that close male acceptance and intimacy for a long time, one that carries a physical component as well as emotional and spiritual. I am married, have 2 sons – I dearly love my wife and boys, they are an indescribable gift from God – and yet there is a part of me that is always longing for that strong, masculine embrace. The question is, as a Christian, how far can that go? What are the boundaries? If I were to ever find a like-minded brother, also a believer, could we cuddle? Spoon? Nude? Could we masturbate together, as long as we didn’t touch? What if we did? What would my wife think? What does God think?

    As cliché as it may sound, I wonder how much of this is due to our relationships with our fathers? In my case, my father was a pastor of a fairly straight-forward, Baptist-like conservative church (although being in California, drinking wine was ok…). Even though I knew he loved me, that love was never expressed verbally, nor did we ever hug (until the very last when we learned he was terminally ill). I mostly recall getting spanked a lot (something he later asked forgiveness for). Later, as a teen, he detested the music I liked (Beatles, Pink Floyd, Eagles) so growing up, I remember thinking I did not want to be like him in any way, shape or form. At the same time, I looked in admiration at the guys in school who were sure of themselves, athletic, popular and wished so much I could be a part of their circle, their camaraderie, be acknowledged – perhaps even accepted – by them. And about that time, a cousin of mine explained masturbation to me- I was only 11 and had not yet discovered it, nor had had a wet dream yet. We didn’t do it together, but, though I felt totally guilty afterwards, I was hooked!

    At the same time, I also had crushes on girls. I learned to play clarinet so that I could sit next to the young lass I had my eye on in school orchestra. Later, as a teen I flew from SF to Colorado Springs just to visit the daughter of a friend of the family I had developed feelings for (alas, not reciprocated). Anyway…where I’m going with this is I think the longing for male acceptance I had became somehow sexualized during my teen years. On the one hand, there was the lack of bonding I felt with my father (and he NEVER talked with me about sexual issues; rather, he once berated and humiliated me for talking about masturbation with a cousin of mine after overhearing our conversation). This fuelled my desire to find male affirmation and acceptance, which became sexualized once I found the joys of jacking off. Yet I did not feel fully gay either since my “romantic” inclinations were towards girls. Thus began the conundrum I’ve lived with ever since….

    In college, I did end up masturbating with one of my roommates. How it, um, came about is a long story, but suffice it to say – though we did it several times and it was fascinating to watch him – it ended up weirding me out after a while. We never touched each other, just did it openly, each of us in his own bed. However, it was awkward when we went out on double dates, and I felt like such a hypocrite with respect to my faith. And then it later turned out he was gay, so that further drove me the opposite direction. I guess I couldn’t handle the contradicting feelings, and certainly could not identify with the gay culture he was getting into, so we ended up drifting apart. Years later, I learned through mutual friends he contracted AIDS, and died towards the end of the 80s. I’ve always carried guilt in that respect because I think I was the one who opened the door to SSA for him by initiating the masturbation sessions together…

    Well, I’ve rambled on long enough. All these years later, I’ve changed my perspective, become more open, and find myself fantasizing about finding another married Christian man that I could bond with on multiple levels. I want to let down the drawbridge to the center of my masculinity – and have him do the same. Be totally transparent and live in the light. Ideally, spending time naked together would be a part of that. Total revelation and acceptance, even affirmation of who we are as men, balls and penis included. Perhaps masturbation could be a part of that, taking trust, vulnerability and masculinity to the nth degree…

    • mistaken identity

      And your post resonates completely with me, mystery, though my father was a pentecostal minister in CA, who definitely did not allow wine in his home (until I was well into my 30s), and I have never masturbated with a man. I have experienced some of the transparency this past year (naked in soul, though not in body), and it is a truly healing thing. I pray that you do find that transparency in Christ’s light.

    • Malcolm

      Physical intimacy with other men is something that I have been thinking a lot about lately, and I would like to throw out some thoughts in the hope that we might have some friendly discussion on the matter. I think that non-sexual nudity with other men (within reason) can be very healthy in that it gets us comfortable with our bodies and it allows us to see that our bodies are as masculine as other men’s bodies. In other words it helps to see ourselves as men and to see that we compare favorably with other men. Hugs with other men also can be good because I think that we all have a need to be touched by others and hugs are good way of expressing affection in a non-sexual way. Until recently, I used to think that cuddling and things like that would be a healthy thing between men, but now I am not so sure. Are we really meeting a legitimate need or are we “getting to third base” with another guy and trying to fool ourselves into thinking that it is ok? Although I believe that this kind of touch is a real need, perhaps that kind of physical intimacy should only be sought in marriage. (I am a married man, BTW.) I think that part of the purpose of marriage is to meet these intimacy needs that can’t (or shouldn’t) be met in same sex relationships. Perhaps the need for intimacy as well as the need for sexual expression should be motivating factors that cause a young man to seek a relationship with a woman. Lately I have been putting more of an effort into trying to be physically intimate with my wife during non-sexual times, and I think that we are both happier for it as she too needs cuddling and physical intimacy that she would never seek from other women. Just some thoughts. I would like to hear other’s opinions. As I said, just recently my opinions have been changing on this subject.

      • Brian

        In my case, the idea of cuddling is something that truly comes from a desire from my heart and not my loins. Sure, it gives me an erection but its not a “wow I’m horny and I need to masturbate” kind of erection. I feel like its coming from a place of basic human need. Masturbating with other guys on the other hand I think is something that comes more from sexual desire rather than emotional.

      • mistaken identity

        Hey Malcolm! I think what you say about motivating factors is true. God understands positive reinforcement better than any of us, and graciously builds in major reinforcers to give us solid pushes when we might need them.
        The third base metaphor doesn’t really work for me, even though I am a baseball fan. The only reason to get to third is to move past it and get that run. The idea of scoring with a man is abhorrent to me, while cuddling seems like it could be beneficial. And my wife and I have almost always got our hands on each other, so I am not needy that way. This isn’t something I think about a lot except when I am here, because it seems so far out of reach in my circles. I do agree with you that non-sexual nudity can help us see ourselves more clearly as men, though that seems out of reach as well. I have forced some of it on myself at the gym for the last couple of years. Did you have some bad experience with the hugging that caused you to alter your opinion? I can definitely see how it could go very wrong without caution.

        • Malcolm

          I don’t have a problem with hugging. I think that’s great. I’ll go ahead and share what has happened that changed my views on this. For a while, I got into my head that I really needed some sort of non-sexual touch from another man and so I decided to make it happen by getting massages from male massage therapists. Some of the time these turned out ok, but there were other times when things turned sexual. (These were licensed “therapists” that I was going to.) I craved massages after I had gone several days without one, and I spent a lot of money that I really had no business spending. I am very ashamed to tell this, but there were a few times that I went back to therapists that gave “happy endings” because I enjoyed it even though I felt overwhelmed by guilt afterwards. In the last massage that I had, I ended up touching the therapist’s penis as well. After this experience I become completely revolted at how far I had sunk, and I truly repented of this sin. Prior to this, I had “repented” a number of times, but I kept going back to it because a part of me really loved it. The last time, the repentance was real because I now have a true hatred of the sin and absolutely no desire to return to it. In my previous “repentances”, I would convince myself that it was ok to get a massage as long as it didn’t end up with a happy ending so I would start going to the guys that didn’t do that, but would end up eventually going back to the ones that did. However, after the last time, I became convinced that all of the massages that I was getting were sinful because all of them were essentially erotic experiences that I was having with other men even if they didn’t end with an orgasm. In all of them, I was laying there naked while a man sensually rubbed my body. Anyway, there is my confession and the reason why I now think that a man should get his touch needs met by his wife rather than another man.

          • Mysterytome

            Oh man, you’ve hit the nail on the head. I’m about one step behind you in this process. I was fairly new to the whole idea of having massages (actually, first suggested by my wife at a resort we visited a couple years ago) but I’ve fast turned into a massage junkie. About a year ago I was in Yokohama, Japan on business and ordered a massage from the hotel as soon as I arrived (I find they really help get over jet lag). I did request a male masseur because they generally give stronger massages, and – like you – I really craved some sort of non-sexual touch from another man. A handsome, mid-30s guy showed up at my door, and promptly stripped off all his clothes (I had only had clothed massages to this point). I thought, well, I guess in Japan they do things differently, and got naked as well. And the massage was total bliss. I felt very connected to the masseur since we were both nude. When I turned over, he massaged all of my front, including my genitals, but in a non-sexual way, if that makes any sense. I got hard, but he didn’t take me to the point of orgasm. When he left, I felt the whole thing was about the most satisfying massage experience I’d ever had. Left me wanting more…but as you said, also feeling rather guilty. The wanting more won out, and it wasn’t long before I was travelling again, this time Berlin, and found another male masseur. This time things got sexual (he also got nude immediately, then started placing his junk in my upturned hands while I was face down, as he worked over my back – took me a while to figure out what he was doing!). Long story short, he gave me a “happy ending”. It was tough to turn it down once the momentum got going, and I felt super guilty afterwards, especially since I had touched his erection as well. And so it goes – I furiously repented, only to have the same thing happen in Dublin, Budapest. Brussels and Frankfurt, each time followed by more sincere repentance than the previous time. I know I need to find the courage to say no, not to mention spending way too much money (and I suppose one could call this prostitution), but there is a part of me desperately wanting to hold on to and believe in the therapeutic effects of being rubbed down by another man…provided it stays non-sexual.

          • Malcolm

            Mysterytome, I understand exactly where you are at. I was there not very long ago. Massage is very addictive. That’s not something that you will find too many people talking about, but it’s true. Ultimately I concluded that I had to give it up completely. Otherwise I was placing myself in the way of temptation. Sort of like an alcoholic who wants to hang out at a bar, but not drink.

          • Malcolm

            Mystery,
            I am attaching a link to a blog (I hope that I am allowed to do that) that is by a man who used to be addicted to male masage. He is a Mormon (I am not), but nevertheless I found the blog interesting as he faced the many of same issues that you and I have faced. Here is the link: https://journeyssa.wordpress.com/.

          • Mysterytome

            Malcom, thanks very much indeed for the link. I think I could have written a considerable amount of what is there, except I also am not Mormon, nor was I ever sexually abused (a different kind of abuse happened at the age of 3 when I was stripped naked by a woman at daycare and humiliated in front of everyone for having wet my trousers). In any case, it is very enlightening to read how he has dealt with this issue. I’m still left wondering if there is a legitimate way touch from another male can happen, and if so, under what circumstances?

          • Malcolm

            My favorite MT is a gay man (he never spoke to me about being gay, but I saw his Facebook page) who always kept all of his clothes on and never touched my penis. He gives a great massage, but I never could keep from getting a full blown erection. The way that he would touch me was so sensual — I would sometimes feel like my body was being worshipped. In my mind, I want to justify it — nothing sexual happened. However, when I ask myself the questions, “Would Jesus do this?” the answer is clear. The honest truth is that I was having a homoerotic experience with another man even if no orgasm occurred. I think that most of us have a legitimate need for erotic touch (yes, not just touch, but erotic touch), but the way that God intends for us to get this need met is through our wives. That said, I also think that there is a legitimate need for same sex touch, but it shouldn’t be erotic. I think that you need to be able to answer yes to the following questions: 1) “Would Jesus do this?” 2) “Would my wife (or future wife) be ok with this?” 3) “Is this pleasing to God?” That said, I really don’t know of a good way in our 21st century American society for most men to get more than an occasional back slap hug from another man. I wish that I had an answer.

          • Hey mystery, welcome to the community. We’re glad to have you with us. Just giving you an FYI that I edited out the graphic part of your comment. We’re all for honest sharing here, but please refrain from being overly explicit as we don’t want to trigger others. Hope that makes sense!

          • Barry Smith

            Mysterytome—-your story sounds incredibly similar to mine. We were both raised as a conservative PK. We both masturbated with roommates in college at our initiative, and both have had massage experiences. We are both now married with two children and committed to living out God’s intention and plan for marriage with our spouse and honoring our vows. I like your statement in another post “My goal is to be wife-oriented.” I agree with that entirely, although I admit that because of my previous experiences, the SSA issues are always knocking at the door. Too bad I can’t meet you or at least talk to you. That would be so therapeutic. Bless you, brother!

          • Mysterytome

            Thanks Barry – would welcome a discussion with you, but not sure how to connect? Blessings on your brow too!

          • Barry Smith

            Mystery to me—I just became a Patron, so if you are also a Patron we will be able to connect through that group. Is that a possibility for you?

          • Mysterytome

            Hey Barry – you can contact me at: mysterytome@protonmail.com

          • Barry Smith

            Mysterytome—I contacted you and sent you an email at the email address you listed but I never heard back from you. You can contact me at gmeier2@roadrunner.com

          • mistaken identity

            Thanks for sharing Malcolm. I love the transparency of this board, and I love the grace of God. One of my first SSA friends became a licensed therapist, and I worried for him that situations like you described would just be too tempting. I certainly understand your conclusion. I pray that God would strengthen your resolve with his grace.

      • Mysterytome

        I do get plenty of cuddle time and intimacy with my wife, and it’s absolutely wonderful. I love every minute of it, dreamily spending the morning in bed (as is possible during the Christmas break), drifting in and out of sleep and each others’ embrace. The problem for me is that I seem to also have a hole in my soul that only another male can fill. Some men apparently get all the intimacy and touch they need from their female counterpart – me, I feel as though I’m a wheel with a spoke missing. Thus the desire to cuddle with a man from time to time. And I imagine naked, all the better. Skin on skin, feeling his love, warmth and acceptance from head to toe. I’d like to believe I’m not trying to “get to third base”. Maybe I’m fooling myself (I have a huge capacity to do that), but I don’t think that it’s sex that I’m seeking. I don’t want to penetrate a guy in any manner; the thought of that is abhorrent. But, being vulnerable together as complete equals, naked…no matter if erections happen or not…is the kind of intimacy that appeals strongly to me. Jesus obviously had no problem with John resting against his breast (ok, they were clothed); but what about David and Jonathan? What was it about Jonathan’s love to David that made it “above that of women”?

    • cctech

      I can totally relate….
      Thank you…..

  • Around the age of thirteen I told my younger cousin that I was getting pubic hair. Curious, he said he wanted to see it, so I let him, so I did; but I didn’t just open my pants. I fully undressed for him and he was very much impressed. He even took my erect penis and stroked it a few times. Each time he wanted to see my growth, and so I would always show him, fully undressing. He had a look of envy in his eyes. A few months later he excitedly told me that he had started growing hair also. He undressed for me and allowed me to inspect it. I undressed for this. Afterwards I admitted to him that I had begun jacking off and when I did, sperm came out. He wanted to see, so I did. Later as we got older, we both began to masturbate in front of each other, never engaging in homosexual behavior till we were much older. Given what we did later, versus the times we masturbated together, I have got to say it was more fulfilling. Honestly, I would have rather engaged in masturbation with other guys instead of having sex, but because of the propaganda of the LGBT community and me being SSA, I thought it was something I had to do. I miss the days of my youth.

    • Hey Bradley, welcome to the community. It’s been awesome to read your comments of late. Since you’re new here, I did want to redirect you to our comment policy in the sidebar. We ask that all commenters refrain from any sexually explicit language in the case that it’s triggering to any of our readers. I’ve gone ahead and edited out those particular portions of this comment you left. While we certainly appreciate vulnerability here, we also take the “less is more” approach when it comes to describing specific sexual acts/stumbles/experiences. Hope that makes sense!

  • Jonathan

    Hi guys! First of all this whole blog is awesome. Thanks guys for taking the time to dig into this stuff.

    Anyways, I have been grappling with this for years. I am still unsure about the whole thing. In my head I can see it can be a non sexual act. But if you found your girlfriend masturbating with another women, would that not make you feel jealous and cheated? If a good friend came up to you and said their spouse was masturbating with another person, wouldn’t your intuition tell you “that’s cheating”. If so, how is masturbating with another man any different? I am just throwing ideas out there because this is a big struggle of mine. It’s defiantly a deep desire for me to experience that intimate moment with a man.

    • mistaken identity

      Welcome Jonathon! I understand the deep desire, and yet your two examples are excellent. I can’t answer your “any different” question in a way that sounds anything but dissembling, even to me.

    • Kevin Frye

      Hi Jonathan! Thanks for the props!

      Yeah, I’ve thought about the whole cheating aspect before, too. What is cheating? What is adultery? What is sex? We think it’s people touching each other, especially penetration, but Jesus said it’s even just the thought (lust in the heart.) So, somehow, I can’t bring myself to say that jacking off with another dude is perfectly all right. Thank you for bringing up this important point.

    • Eddie

      Hey there Jonathan. I have been contemplating this question as well. When I regrettably started looking for online hookups, I came across a guy who wanted a fellow “guy friend with benefits.” I figure this guy was as good as any to begin my promiscuous lifestyle with. In my mind, I thought we would become like lovers, but I came to find out he was a married man. This fact made me feel like a homewrecker. Before anything transpired, I broke off contact with him as the potential guilt would be too much to bear. The idea of him cheating on his wife with me drove me over the edge and caused to to see the error of my ways. Incidentally, I have never hooked up with anyone for any sexual encounter (yes, still a virgin, I guess). Certainly none that came to fruition. My point is I do believe your instincts point to a limit, boundary or threshold that crosses the line between fidelity and infidelity. I would be lying if I said that I didn’t long for some degree of platonic intimacy with another man. It’s a bit hard to know exactly what it would look like for me morally and ethically. To be physically naked and/or emotionally vulnerable with another guy leads me to ponder where we draw the line and with whom. I would not want to violate the sanctity of a brother’s marriage for my own personal ends.

  • JeremyP

    Yes, yes, yes! I remember thinking before recovery, “I just want bro time” and thinking masterbation was the ultimate bonding tool. I didn’t want sex, but I wanted intimacy.

  • Bob Dess

    I recently shared a story about my freshman year college roommate with someone. One of the things in the story was that before we opened intimately with each other, we both had listened to each other masturbating in the middle of the night. We never talked about it, it just happened. AFTER we opened up we both talked about how we had been “sharing” with that experience and how it had opened a way for us to grow closer. This was not about watching, but it was about sharing the masturbation with another male. His being str8 to my SSA made it all non-sexual when we were able to talk on it. Don’t dismiss the thought if you have it. But do analyze what you are looking for, as stated in this post.

  • Bryan

    We’ve discussed the morality of masturbation elsewhere… whether it is a sin or not. Do you think masturbating with another guy would be better or worse on a moral scale than doing it alone? If either is a sin, is one of them a greater sin? Maybe it’s splitting hairs, but I’m curious what everyone thinks.

    This is such a great post. And a time-honored one, still being talked about after almost 7 months!

  • BR Dude

    Been searching for something like this and I came to your blog. I must say, you are very honest and corageous. I’m a straight guy living in Brazil and to be fair, I always wondered if I could ever masturbate with a close friend, or if that would make me gay.
    We are taught multiple times that seeing another guy’s penis is something you should never do. And yet I feel this is only homophobia disguised.
    Been two years and a half in a swim school, men were naked in the locker room all times, and nobody cared. Some younger guys were constantly trying to hide themselves, and I can see why now. Insecurity.
    Hell, I’ve had this too, but I kept practising and now I work on myself to be my best, everyday.

    The thing is: I still have this crave, this curiosity about just chilling with another guy, someone who I trust, but I’m too afraid to say anything, because of backlash. And I feel that I am 100% straight, but I keep searching for answers and never find.
    Anyways, your blog brought me some awareness and I hope to live life like it’s meant to be: no prejudices, no hate.
    Good luck and to everyone reading this, thank you so much.

    • Kevin Frye

      Right on, Dude. I think a lot of straight guys are in similar situations, wanting something that the world tells them is gay, but they themselves don’t feel gay and don’t believe they are. I think this is where Christians can shine, because we have the Holy Spirit shining in us and leading us into all truth. We can be whole and normal and not care if the world thinks we’re gay for it. This will require boldness and strength, but we can do it. That’s how life is supposed to be. Be that light in Brazil, Dude. Blessings.

  • Samuel M-Eshleman

    Interesting post. Men long to be known; very true. Perhaps, where this gets sticky (no pun intended), is when masturbation reinforces unwanted cycles of lust toward the men that we should be befriending. Thus, it may be better to get intimate with other men from the inside out; starting with a connection and understanding that takes place when people have clothes on. Then, over time we can peel back some layers without feeling ED. Tough topic; thanks for the vulnerability.

  • Brad K

    Great post guys, some excellent and mature comments in this thread which are helpful. I am A Christian and my hearts desire is to grow closer to my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and to spend eternity with him. But I am struggling and I am trying to get to the bottom of it in the hope of moving forward. For me my attraction to men started out when I was just 5 years old and saw a topless man on the TV and I got a pleasant feeling in my genital area so I do realize that we are all born with the attraction to fellow human beings. I also recall masturbating from when I was in Grade 3 at school at age of 8. I never realized that what I was experiencing was actually an orgasm as I had some link between a pin and this arousing nice feelings from my early child hood perhaps when my mom changed my nappy as a baby. So when I started masturbating at this early age I used to insert a pin partially into my urethra and I often thought this is what gave me the pleasurable feeling which I later discovered was an orgasm but at this young age without any ejaculate. Just to set the scene I had never seen any pornographic content by age 8 and had never been abused as far as I know. Also no one ever showed me how to masturbate so I do conclude that we have wired in desires that are sometimes beyond our control I suppose like eating or drinking. My relationship with my dad was ok although we never hugged and I don’t recall him saying he loved me although that has changed now in the latter years. I would prefer being in Ladies company and was very close to my mom. But let me say from the onset I am not using any of this as an excuse to justify my current sexual behavior. I continued to masturbate daily all the way through to the age of about 30 when things started calming down slightly as I was now married. I was thin and scrawny at school and due to bad eye hand co ordination was never good at sport and was embarrassed of my body and to go even barefoot in front of other guys. I was called a nerd and gay and all that usual stuff and as an escape mechanism and to prove my worth I excelled in academics as I could do that well and of course I would masturbate to get release from the pressures of daily life. When I moved into my own house away from my parents my viewing porn habit started with the occasional meet up with strange men but never to have sex, purely to get naked and masturbate sometimes just watching and sometimes lending a helping hand to the other guy. I have also gone for a few massages and have enjoyed the touching of genitals and the excitement of being naked and seeing the other guy naked. I find when I am under lots of work pressure I often revert to watching porn and seeking other guys on chat and websites. The porn I watch is mostly of mutual masturbation between men but rarely or men and woman engaging which I find odd considering I am married with three kids and none of them know of my bad habits. But anal disgusts me and I do believe it is an insult to our creator especially if one man’s life giving seed is planted into the rectum of another which part of the body is intended to move the waste away from the body. My pornography habit has become casual which I do not like and I feel it is wasting valuable time and creating a wedge between me and God, at times I feel I have brain fog. I enjoy looking at men’s feet, it is not a fetish as such, strangely I don’t seek out looking at those of a woman and i sometimes think this stems from feet being closed up most of the time and possibly my shyness about being barefoot as a youngster. Perhaps what this does illustrate is that these hidden parts of our bodies are desirable because they are hidden, why for instance do i not find the same attraction to hands most probably because they are exposed. Perhaps the being naked with other guys but no touching will help to curb this curiosity. I am trying to work this all out and deal with it but I do think you often need to go back to the route where it all started and work from there. Any input on my story to help me would be appreciated.

    • BR Dude

      Well, I’m 21 years old and never was like “one of the guys” at school or college. I felt so disconnected from everybody that I became addicted to pornography. It helped me to relieve some of my stress, but it was never enough. I still have this desire to be naked in front of a guy, nothing sexual, just pure honesty, and this desire hinders every progress I make as a human. I was also called a gay or nerd, which I just don’t care anymore.
      Your story is a gift here. Thank you. Maybe if you don’t fixate your mind about it too much, it may pass, but I can’t tell much because I’m at the same boat as you are.
      I hope you find some solace in here, and work out this feeling of yours.
      Thanks for sharing.

  • Franker_G

    Curiosity, and to feel comfortable in ones skin..
    With the last year of High-School, and going to a school district with an Olympic Size Pool, it was required for all students to take 10 weeks of swimming class.. So from Mid Junior High till the last week of my senior year; 10 weeks out of a 40 week school year..
    I would think that most young men in their senior year of High School- everyone in that peer group should be up to speed in the sexual development.. I always felt that the mid to late school years can be the awkward years.. Acne, growing spurts.. Voice Changing, and the famous facial hair.. oh, less we forget the body odor.. lol.
    The fantasies of the school years can be difficult to describe..? I would like to compare, but only few comparisons could be achieved.. Did everyone in the boys locker room have pubic hair..? Showers or Growers.. I would imagine that most men are growers, but most young men could get aroused just short of getting disrobed.. It can turn into a circus standing in front of the urinal to thread my member though the zipper of my trousers.. lol.. All Of The Above Took Place In The Late 1970’s to Early 1980’s…
    The Above Statement is fragmented: My imagination could run wild with me.. Certainly- I would like to masturbate with another man.. This individual would have to be about the same age as me, and have similar physical attributes.. The Curiosity side of it is to compare.. How I would stack up to this person, and who can last the longest before releasing..
    Which hand would do the better job, and it would or could change the out-come.. ? I’m Right Handed.. lol..
    I’m likely to forget something here, but most of you would get the gist at what I’m driving at..
    Vision Trickery. My Genitals look bigger in the mirror, and many of the young men in my graduation class seemed to be of the same size as me.. ha-ha.. Point of View, Perspective, and Looking Down- An Doing An Inventory Of My Own Equipment.. A very good photo angle could make a medium size tool look large..
    Ugh, The Indignities..

  • Danny D

    I have done it. Sauna at the gym. With another married guy my age. We only touched our own and outside of the act of rubbing and ejaculating, it was not overly sexual. That was my last time. Because in that act I realized that what I wanted was a brotherly intimacy, not a quick thrill. While I enjoyed the vulnerability and openness, I realized there are other ways to be vulnerable and open with a brother. Even just being naked and talking can accomplish that for me. I prayed to God for forgiveness after that experience.

  • Michael

    I remember when I realized that my sexual desire and basically everyone else’s sinful nature or acts are all rooted in a “hunger for acceptance, approval, validation, and love from my male peers.” I really relate too when you say “It’s not based on sex or homosexuality, but rather an intense need to know that I am a man, that I am an equal with other men, that I am accepted, loved, and approved to the core of my being.” I have such a deep need for intimate connection with other men. It can be encouraging when people relate to me in a comment and I hope to build community with other brothers here. I also hope God will fulfill that need for a physical community of brothers where we share similar struggles, are known, but are valued and accepted regardless of where we are knowing that we are together walking toward Jesus.

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  • Nick Horner

    I relate to this so deeply. I am very interested in the opposite sex but I crave intimacy with men. I am not sexually attracted to men, I just love being one and want to be surrounded and in some way held by that energy. I love this notion and wish I had men like you near me to be close with, and love without sex.

  • Robert Fleming

    Definitely. This is exactly where I’m at. Love jacking off on cam with another guy. Would also love to do so in real life. I even fantasize another guy jerking me off. But like you, I’m convinced my true source is God. He’s the only one that really satisfies. Love what you said about God wanting to get the root. I feel like he’s doing it. Sometimes I’m up, sometimes I’m down. I think it’s because I’ve got a BIG hole inside me. I believe one way I can let him fill this need is to invite him into the dirtiest time and let his hands and feet minister to me…maybe a cuddle.

  • cctech

    Kevin, this piece hits me on so many levels, it’s exactly what I am going through.
    My father never held me with the exception of one Christmas when I was 6 or 7, he cuddled me, and we watched tv. My parents separated shortly after that.
    To this day I still miss being cuddled by my father, he has passed on, but there was no real love loss, he was never there for me in a deep father son manner.
    The only “touching” I received was of a sexual abuse from my mother, and the struggles with this are so deep, but what you have stated helped me to know, I am not alone. This I fine encouraging. I don’t have to hide this, I can be open.
    I can’t tell you how this causes the pain of it all to come forward………
    Thank you.

    • Kevin Frye

      I don’t know how any of this article helped you, but if it did, I’m glad! I can’t imagine the pain and loss you’ve had to work through. I’m glad you’re finding some level of brotherhood and encouragement here with us, though. 🙂

  • Robert Fleming

    Kevin, the more I read from you the more I’m like this guy gets it! I’ve fantasized about it tons of times. I believe it’s a DEEP desire to be known and accepted that fuels it. Growing up I was never enough. I needed to be just a bit better. Always improving. The last two or three years have been great in terms of understanding God’s love for me and actually beginning to accept it. But I still feel this need would be great if met in a practical way sometimes. In my own journey I’ve done it over the internet with gay and straight guys and the funny thing is that it felt far cleaner than porn. The only explanation I have for it is that porn is mostly fantasy based and this is doing something with a real human. I suspect God’s ok with it. Honestly though, I don’t know. The question I always ask myself is who’s my source here?

    • Kevin Frye

      I’ve often wondered the same thing. Is God really against this, or is it just my self-condemnation and fear that hold me back from masturbating with other guys? But then, I know I can’t trust myself to ask that kind of question and answer it on my own, because I have lusts that need to be restrained and fled from. Somehow, I just can’t bring myself to say God is okay with me jacking off with another guy.

      • Malcolm

        Unfortunately I have indulged this desire a few times, and I wish that I had not. While I am pretty liberal on my views of masturbation, I can’t really justify that when two guys do it together that it is somehow not a homosexual act. It is an intimate act, but I think that it is a type of intimacy that two guys really aren’t supposed to share. I think that there is a friendship type of intimacy that is supposed to be shared between men, and a sexual type of intimacy that God intended to be shared between a husband and wife. It is the nature of us SSA guys to get these two types of intimacy confused and mixed up so we have to be really careful here. Anything pleasurable can be addictive, so I think that it is better to not take a step on this road. I feel like the few times that I did it were addictive, and now I have a struggle to deal with that I otherwise would not have.

        • Well said, Malcolm. And thanks for imparting the difficult wisdom gained from the “past tense” side of this temptation. I’m definately hearing you, brother.

  • This, in my opinion, is by far the best post you have here on the YOB blogsite, Kevin. It’s a really, really powerful and insightful self-analysis, that digs very deeply into the masculine heart of this topic for me personally, and quite obviously for so many of the rest of us as well.

    These two statements of yours stuck out to me, and really summarized this issue very personally in my own fantasies about it:

    “It’s not really a sexual desire. It’s an innate desire, masked in sexual expression…”

    “Let’s make this distinction between the true desire [which is intimate, masculine validation] and the most convenient method of feeling that that desire is getting satisfied [masturbation]. Let’s not believe that this true desire [to be validated at our deepest, most vulnerable level] is evil…”

    Do I ever fantasize about or desire to masturbate with other guys? I certainly have, yes!

    Where do I think this desire comes from? I’ve felt for a long time now that it comes from the very same basic needs that you’ve described above, Kevin… This desire, along with the desires I have to be casually nude with other men, and to hold hands with my male friends, or to cuddle nude with my male friends, as well… all of it without it becoming sexual! I mean, I get it that there is a sexual component to some of this. But having “sex” with a guy is actually the farthest desire from my heart, while still desiring to experience the intimacy of these kinds of masculine validations with another man who loves me in brotherhood and friendship, and who thinks as highly of me as a man as I do of him.

    How do I think God can fulfill this need? Honestly? By actually allowing me the freedom and grace to experience some of it! By bringing one or two men into my life who also feel the same way about avoiding sex, and yet who also desire the closeness of sharing this kind of validation with each other… though I humbly admit that this is probably far from a practical or realistic solution, in most cases. But it is a completely honest response to the question, nonetheless… and God already knows the desires of my masculine heart—as well as my desire for him to shape those desires where they may be in error, or where they are not in my best interest. And I do trust him.

    But I actually recognized the innocence of these desires years ago (not necessarily their expressions, but the desires themselves), as I lay in bed next to a close friend during a sleep-over, and I worked up the courage to reach out to hold his hand… and to my warm surprise, when he held my hand back.

    Oh what a wonderfully innocent and fulfilling moment in time that this simple expression of love toward each other was!

    Thank you so much for your honesty and vulnerability in sharing this post, Kevin. God bless you, brother!

    • Kevin Frye

      I don’t know what to say, Dean, but thank you for your compliments and sharing some of your own thoughts and feelings here. This article is old now and I am not able to keep up with old stuff very well, checking every comment, replying to everything, and so on. I’m glad it’s still on here, though, and people are still resonating with it.

      • No worries, Kevin. I know it’s an old post. No expectations, brother… just appreciation.

        If you do happen to see this, though, I’d be interested to know if you still feel the same about this posting now as you did back when you posted it… has anything changed in the sentiments you expressed here, since then?

        Godspeed!