Before we dive into why I like the Netflix show, Queer Eye, let me begin by saying this: I recognize this post will be a struggle for many reading.
You may interpret this post as an affirmation of sin, but I would like to discourage that assumption.
Theologically, I am as traditional as it gets. Scripture is my guide to every area of life.
My hero (and best friend) is John Calvin. I’ve read a lot of early church fathers and theologians throughout the ages. I try my hardest to hold to historic views of Scripture.
I want to assure you that I am not heading in some “liberal direction.”
Here’s the reality: LGBTQ+ people have sinned, but we also need to recognize that they have been sinned against.
A denomination within my tradition stated in the early 70’s that “the homosexual has been sinned against more than they have sinned.”
Scripture condemns sexual activity with the same sex. But Christians in recent generations have made judgments against people who have the temptation toward same-sex sexual activity without actually participating in that activity.
It does not help that our society has made categories for those who are attracted to the same sex. By labeling us “gay,” they have given us a label to show that we are different than the rest of society — thus making us an easy target.
I have been a faithful Christian. I’ve never had sex with a guy, never pursued a romantic relationship with a guy. I have always attended church and read my Bible and pray.
Nonetheless, because of my attractions, I have been labeled as different.
As a result, I have experienced a lot of prejudice. I have been ostracized from church communities. I have been forced to leave ministry jobs.
I have experienced shame, the idea that I am simply unlovable. I even believed for many years that God hated me, that God himself couldn’t even love me.
When prejudice and shame come together, loneliness becomes a crippling factor of life, and I spend so much time trying to cope with my loneliness (i.e. smoking a lot of cigarettes).
So, how does all this fit in with Queer Eye?
First of all, I know that each member of the Fab Five is fine with same-sex sex. I still think that is a sin. But the vast majority of the episode content is not even addressing sex; it is addressing prejudice, shame, and loneliness.
In the first episode of season two, we immediately hear about the various church experiences among the Fab Five — especially Bobby, the design expert.
Bobby has been so hurt by the church that he cannot even enter a church building. You see and hear his torment in the episode.
He loved church so much as a kid but was rejected by the community. This was before he was even “out” to everyone, before he had a boyfriend, before he pursued any same-sex relationships.
Bobby was sinned against, and I can so badly relate to that. Bobby hadn’t even committed the sin of sexual immorality, and still he wasn’t accepted and loved.
I cried so much through this episode, because this was my life. In this particular episode, the Fab Five helped out this lady named Tammye: a strong “mama figure” who is passionate about her church. And she did what mamas do best.
She treated these five gay men the same way she treats everyone else. She showed immense love to these men. Men who believed they were unlovable, that even God rejected them.
Tammye displayed God’s love to them.
At the end of the episode, she gave each guy a blessing, saying that each was preordained by God to help her and her church.
If you’ve seen the episode, you might note some theological issues. The episode gets too pluralistic in other religions for my liking (and other things like that).
But my point is that Tammye showed Christian love in ways we are continually yearning for.
The Fab Five experienced Christian love in ways they’d never experienced, too. And we want to experience that love in the same way.
The vast majority of our readers hold to a traditional interpretation of Scripture. We live by that, and it is an evil thing that we are still rejected by fellow Christians.
Let me repeat that: it is evil for other Christians to reject us even though we live our lives by submitting to Christ.
Here’s the truth: Jesus cares for us. We do not experience prejudice in Christ. Christ has shown us the greatest amount of love to us while we were still enemies, thus loving the unlovable. And Christ brings us into community with himself, thus combating our loneliness.
This gives us hope for our church communities. Christians are united with Christ. If Christ has shown us love, we can trust that at some point we will experience that love from our church communities.
That is the hope we have.
In what ways are shows like Queer Eye both a positive and a negative experience for you? Have you experienced prejudice, shame, and loneliness from church communities? How has Christ erased prejudice, shame, and loneliness in your life?
Photo courtesy Netflix.
About the Author
Good stuff, Will. I started attending a small New Testament church in February that holds discipline in high regards. They welcome all sorts of folks while maintaining the purity of the flock. I have had sexual relations with males (and females), now I’m seeking purity and singleness. One member I met shared his story, and he has had a much different past than I have (was married to woman, had a kid, then divorced and went on to have hundreds of male partners). I have a problem going, because I make excuses to not attend. I tend to hold my SSA in higher regard as being unforgiveable and I dare not even set foot in that church. So happy you’re a virgin, man. You’re one of the few. Also, glad to know you’re into Calvin. Wooot!
About two months after I gave my life to Christ, an idiot guest speaker at the church I was going to declared from the pulpit that all gays go to hell. What was worse was the entire congregation shouting ‘halleluiah’, ‘praise Jesus’ and ‘amen’. That hurt a lot, and I hadn’t even had sex with a man yet. I had been faithfully going to church. I was tithing ten percent of my income (on a convenience store clerk’s salary). I even had led two to Christ; but then I hear this.
I left the church, angry and confused. Despite giving my life to Christ, I was going to hell anyway. I had my first gay sex a few days later. I went hardcore into the gay lifestyle, full of animosity and hatred of Christians. I wouldn’t step foot in a church, except occasionally of Easter and Christmas (and even then it was only to be seen). It took a near death experience (a stroke) to bring me back to God.
Even after I returned, I still had anger issues and mistrust of Christians. I still expect some Christians to jump out from behind a pew and yell ‘FOOLED YOU!’. One guy still calls me ‘that sodomite’ and asks if I was a pedophile. Many will give me a courteous smile followed by a disapproving glare. I didn’t even want anybody to know of my past. I only outed myself to save a youth from killing himself because he was gay.
I guess it is my lot in life. I have to love and forgive others, even though some will never forgive me.
Hey there, Bradley. I know you’ve shared that story many times. I can tell it’s still a painful set of memories. We do have to forgive others…billions of times. I had to forgive the boys (and girls) who bullied me as a child, and the boy at church camp who called me a “fag,” so long ago. On and on and on…Only Jesus Christ has the power to forgive us of our sins. It’s so easy to hate other people, while telling ourselves we love God. I’ve not always shown grace to people. I have to constantly pray for a sensitive, tender heart and for humility. Hope that helps, man.
It does. I am working on forgiveness, but I wonder what I would have become if I hadn’t heard that false message.
This was something I said to some friends about the reboot when it first started. And yes, I cried with the Tammye episode too.
I’ll start by saying I am not the biggest fan of reality shows, but I’m glad I watched this one. For one it was pretty clean. It obviously takes on the world’s view of sex, but I would still call it family friendly. But the most impacting thing that I got out of it was these middle aged, southern, conservative world view men allowing themselves to be touched, helped, healed, and taught by this group of gay men! No, the world’s problems aren’t going to solved by straight men finally taking proper fashion advice, but how they opened themselves up and allowed their lives to be touched was really awesome.
Plus the guys are adorable and hilarious like little puppies.
And another review I read that I loved said something along the lines about this show shows like a “behind the scenes” look at the lives of gay people. When you take away who they do or don’t sleep with, who are they? How do they interact with each other? What does a circle of friends of gay men look like? If you think about it, even the show’s gimmick is about them being gay, it’s really about who they are outside of their sexuality in a way. It shows who they are as people while also not excluding their sexuality. It tells THE WHOLE story. Not just the gay parts, and not everything but the gay parts which is what a lot of different media representations tend to do.
I think if I had a TV I might watch. I just can’t make myself watch a lot of that stuff, though. I find it sad seeing grown men act like that. I’m not the butchest guy out there, but God made me a man, and I have to act like it.
I don’t have a TV, either. So, I guess I’m not the only odd one out, brother.
okay, so 1 how do you know how they act if you haven’t seen the show? and 2 what does “act like that?” even mean?
Okay, I’m going to play along and be like others and ask the following questions:
What does “hyper masculinity” even mean?
What is “toxic masculinity”?
I think Jesus was a good example of masculinity, and one I aim to emulate.
Those definitions are interesting, and I take the points. But I don’t think everything about traditional ideas of masculinity is wrong. Nor did I get the sense of either term from jonevan’s or Joshua’s posts.
Thank God that I am not a Baptist, then! LOL!
I would say Jesus refined masculinity. In the New Testament, the husband is still the head of the home, etc., but he is to rule by love and give honor to the wife as the weaker vessel. She is still told to obey and be in subjection. But he is told to love her as he loves himself. There’s still a clear domestic distinction between the genders there. Spiritually, however, I do agree that they are equal.
Plut, obey and subjection (and in another place, submission) are biblical terms used by the man who largely defined the practicalities of the Christian faith for us. They aren’t in fashion or in vogue with the present culture, but that is to the culture’s detriment. It doesn’t change the will of God revealed in this matter.
I think the comparison between defined gender roles with slavery is a non sequitur. Was Paul afraid that husbands would murder their wives?
If you take issue with the plain text of the Word of God, then I guess I don’t know what else to say, brother.
I think we’re getting into some pretty deep waters, brother, when we measure scripture by culture and not culture by scripture. This is one of those discussions better taken offline, as it could really go on for some time. Love you, brother.
Again, while I view the foundation of our discussion on these matter relevant to the post, I think the finer details are better fleshed out offline.
Blue Letter Bible is a great source for the Hebrew and Greek.
If I may, typically when a woman is told to obey her husband, the husband is the first to receive orders to obey, subject himself to Christ, as Christ loved the church (sacrificial love). Paul had a lot to say how husbands are to treat and respect their wives, and admonished abuses of power within the family. In many cultures, at various points, this ideology spat at them in the face. If the kind of treatment Paul demands men perform were commonplace, the kind of ‘patriarchy’ we know as it is today, wouldn’t exist.
I wholeheartedly concur.
Traditional masculinity? I think ‘corrupted masculinity’ is a better terminology. First century Israel adopted a lot of the Greco-Roman attitudes. These being attitudes towards women and children; completely stupid and not worth your time, and the lowest level of the social order, respectively. Christ, in contrast treasured children and held women in equal esteem as men. Sending three women to proclaim your death in an age where women were not heeded is quite a blow to the dominate Greco-Roman ideology.
Personally, when it comes to the issues of masculinity. and feminity, I argue it’s not a about ‘traditional’ anything, but more ‘corrupted’ behavior. Christ is the truly masculine man and exhibits the qualities men were supposed to have.
And given how in the West the ideas of a man’s role changed after the Industrial Revolution, it’s likely masculinity was given a different take. Of course, there are certain traits that are part of the general masculine identity. However, this does vary on country and culture. And ideas are constantly changing as the last fifty years have shown us. With this, I’m not entirely sure if a definition can be given to ‘traditional masculinity.’
“There are certain traits that are part of the general masculine identity.”
I agree.
I think maybe he’s referring to the phrase they “act like little puppies”.
That’s a good topic Plut!
True, there are the hyper masculine men. These are the macho, xenophobic, misogynistic, sex crazed men who outperform for their peers. Truly toxic and wrong and outliers! Not role models for sure to copy. But realize this isn’t one sided!
What about in the gay community? Many are adjusted, leading ordinary sometimes extraordinary lives and barring their sex lives better role models than the former. Yet, you will find (as in QE) gay men who are hypo masculine, campy outrageously hyper feminine with wild mannerisms, haughty drawls, elegant gestures, statuesque poses, languid witticisms and the like!
Bring those types into the church and the natural reaction is repulsion which is understandable. No? I’m not talking about the effeminate guys who are born that way and are just fine and you find them in the church whether they are straight or gay. Those are generally accepted because most recognize these guys are born that way. But the campy type I suspect weren’t born that way. It is learned behavior being in that type of gay culture and watching too much QE :).
So, “act like that” for me refers to this campy group.
Love the show. Love the stories. Love all the things they tackle that have absolutely nothing to do with sexuality. Self-worth. Confidence. Shame. Family. Vulnerability. Church. The list goes on and on. Often sexuality is such a dominating focus of my life; it’s honestly refreshing to see a “gay show” that has very little to do with being gay. Like Ashley said…the whole story.
I can’t wait to watch the rest of this new season.
(No spoilers!)
I understand the point that you are making, I really do, but I have to say that I am disappointed in the direction that this site has taken in recent weeks. It seems that the direction that it is taking is in embracing a gay identity, and I can’t agree with that. First there was the post about “Wanting to be LGBT” and then the post debating whether or not we should celebrate “Pride”, and now liking gay TV shows (which in my opinion a Christian has no business watching — along with 95% of the other filth on TV). Our sinful desires do not have to be an identity. Our identity is in Christ — not with the children of wrath who have willfully rejected Him. That is not to say that we can’t love them, and that God doesn’t love them. He certainly does, but we need to bring them to our side rather than identifying with their side.
Malcolm, I agree with you.
Hey Malcom,
Thanks for your comment. One thing I want to address quickly, we haven’t changed the direction of this site. We have to recognize that there is a huge variety of beliefs within the traditional sexual ethic. If we believe that lust and same-sex sexual activity is a sin, which is the belief of this site, there is a lot of variety of opinions on engaging with culture. And as authors, we blog what is on our minds that is relevant to the discussion faith, homosexuality, and masculinity. We do not plan topics ahead of time or coordinate. We just check if it fits within YOB values.
When it comes to the gay identity, there are a lot of different viewpoints, and you can disagree with that, and I totally respect it, but it is good to see these viewpoints as legitimate. A lot of people do not see attraction to the same sex as a sin, but a result of the fall. Only lust and same-sex sexual activity is a sin. Basically, not all brokenness is sin, but all sin is brokenness. So to assume a sexual identity for some people, it is not saying that they are have sex with the same sex, but they make an identity based off of their brokenness as a result of the fall. So it is not identifying with sin. I think that is really clear to get across. Now you may disagree if it is wise to make an identity off of brokenness in your life, and that is understandable.
I’m with you Malcolm. Disappointed in some of the content in this site. Where is the discernment?
I agree with you, Drew. Not everyone should watch this show if it causes one to go to unhealthy places. But on the flip side, I believe one shouldn’t discourage it for all if others don’t go to said places.
Tom….just because we have liberty, are we always to use it? A wise apostle once said,
If eating meat makes by brother to stumble, I will eat no meat while the world stands.
Do we have the same type of commitment to our brothers for whom to watch such things is a stumblingblock?
Unbelievable comment.
Brother, by all means, have your cake and eat it, too.
And I’m not making excuses for the wrong way churches are handling the issues. I just think it is so easy to have knee-jerk reactions to everything, we need to proceed with caution. Not everything traditional is wrong. It’s difficult to have a lengthy and productive discussion on this site.
Love this post. So amazing, Will. Thank you for sharing the impact of this show on you. I experienced the same influence watching season 1. I haven’t seen season 2 yet, but I can only imagine what is in store when I do watch it.
I don’t watch TV; don’t have a TV in the home, for that matter. But I wouldn’t watch something like this even if I did, and certainly not allow my children to watch it. Perhaps the sexual issues are muted. The main thing to me, however, is the desensitization to the gay lifestyle that this probably has as its end goal. Remove the objections by getting people used to seeing gay men (with the wrong sexual ethic) live absolutely wonderfully fun lives.
Let’s try picking 5 of the top bloggers on here to do a show just like this. We’ll announce to viewers that they are specifically side B and have chosen to remain celibate or stay married to their wives, and see just what kind of ratings we get.
Take away the queerness (that is to say, the fact that these men believe in the wrong sexual ethic), and you have destroyed the prop upon which the enterprise is based. They are counting on the shock value, and looks like it is working, brethren. Stuff like this sells. Big time.
I want my children to love people where they are and to understand their humanity. But I would not on my life trust Hollywood to teach them this.
Reality television is still, at the bottom of it all, entertainment. There’s always an agenda. Always lopsided. Always unabashedly liberal and progressive.
I have the utmost respect for people who do not have a TV. TV can be a harmful distraction I think.
I would like to gently push back comments on the gay lifestyle. I think it is incredibly important to only say something is a sin when Scripture says that it is a sin. And it is important to not shy away from things that Scripture says is a sin and say it plainly. But when people use the phrase “gay lifestyle”, what does that even mean? Most of the show are people who are gifted at certain areas of life like cooking and fashion, and share those gifts with others. Is that the gay lifestyle? Is it these five guys who are close friends with each other, is that the gay lifestyle? Those activities are not sin. If the fact that they do not believe the traditional sexual ethic is enough reason to condemn the rest of their lives, do we do that with heterosexual people who do not believe in a traditional sexual ethic (i.e. no sex outside of marriage)? Do we still watch shows of people with a sinful straight lifestyle? Well maybe you don’t watch their shows, which again, upmost respect.
And to use your scenario, if our authors were really good at cooking, decorating, fashion, and so forth, and had fun chemistry, I would absolutely watch that show.
But with that said, I understand where you are coming from. There is no such thing as neutral entertainment, and it is good to recognize that and figure out what is best for a family if they should take in entertainment or not.
Hi, Will. By “gay lifestyle” I mean practicing homosexuality. I think that’s what most people mean when they use the terms gay and lifestyle together. Sorry, I didn’t realize that would have been unclear.
It is this aspect that even makes the show what it is. Hence the title. And hence my comments.
If that is the definition of gay lifestyle, there is no gay lifestyle in this show. I haven’t seen any practice of homosexuality.
“it obviously takes on the world’s view of sex” were Ashley’s words. I assume meaning, not that sex is performed on the show, but that the stars of show agree with the worldly view of their sexuality. Brother, it’s the selling point of the show, cooking and fashion not withstanding.
God give us all good discernment to look beyond the facade and see the intentions.
I still do not think that is the intention or selling point of the show. But we can disagree on that. Discernment is important, because in almost everything we do we participating the world’s view of sex, even when we go clothes shopping or walmart. So it takes discernment on being in the world and not of the world, and there is Christian liberty within that.
I agree that discernment is required everywhere, brother.
But, come on, Will. The very title of the show reveals the agenda.
They are capitalizing on stereotype and sexuality.
Practicing homosexuality.
Brother, our children are exposed to other people. But God places the responsibility on me to teach them biblical truth and to instruct them on matters of sexuality. I wouldn’t leave that to Hollywood or to people in open rebellion against His will.
In group texts we’ve actually ~thoroughly~ discussed the notion of an “SSA Eye” show with our authors: Dean on food, Matt on fashion, myself on culture, etc. Personally non-biased opinion: that show would be hilarious and inspiring. Impacting straight people in the Church one tragic homophobic mindset/hairstyle at a time!
LOL! Just leave SSA or if it, Tom. At the end of the day, you are all just normal everyday people.
Wow, careful there buddy! Seems like you just called me a sinner for being gay. Gonna have to ask you to respect different conclusions. 😉
I love Queer Eye for the transformations and fashion advice. Maybe a little deeper issue I love is that they’re making an effort at recognizing we’re all human and need each other. What would the world be like if we lived at peace with each other…even though we may disagree?
BTW – I’ve cried through so many of the episodes I’ve lost count. Lol
To say I’ve been experienced prejudice by the church for being gay is an understatement. Was asked to leave the place I was staying because of it. Don’t miss it, but it still hurts a bit. On the flip side, just spoke with a head pastor who told me he doesn’t go much deeper than a simple faith approach of loving your neighbor as yourself. Can’t tell you how much that did to heal me. I guess that’s the beauty of the whole thing. Like I’m a diamond being shaped. It’d be a shame to erase those cuts, but through Christ and just plain healthy life those marks can be a part of my story.
I haven’t seen any Queer Eye. I’m curious: how much of it is about dismantling toxic masculinity? That, at least, is something I’m generally in favor of.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EspKX2FdpK4
“It’s exciting to be a man right now [because what it means to be a man is shifting.]” Hmmmm! Very interesting.
It is interesting. Coming from men who believe that same-sex relationships are okay.
My church experience has been unusually good, in terms of prejudice and homophobia. However, after hearing a number of other people’s experiences I have gained an appreciation of what others have had to go through. I am familiar with the call in many congregations to “just love on” LGBT/SSA people (a la Tammye, it sounds like), and that’s a good start, but even in my wonderful church I think there’s some conviction, repentance, and real, costly(!!) change that needs to happen before we can have the witness we want to have in our city.
Yes Ryan, there are churches that have a bad history of mistreating guys with SSA. I have been marginalized, told I can’t lead, and had false rumors circulated about me. I look on these things as part of the deal when I chose to go public with my story. The ability to help others has been so much worth the cost!
Love you, Marshall.
I said this before in the Pride Month blog comment section and I should repeat it here: Empathizing and relating to the Side A world is not the same as endorsing it. I’ve only watched one full episode (I share my parents’ Netflix account and I don’t want them scratching their heads over the video watch history) but I’ve seen plenty of clips to get what its all about. You don’t have to agree with the hosts of the show about their sexual ethics in order to enjoy it, or learn something That’s like saying you endorse murder because you enjoy watching the Joker’s performance in The Dark Knight (extreme example, I know).
Despite my disagreements about their sex lives, I think I could learn a lot about fashion, hair design, and interior decorating. Not bad skills to have. I also like seeing them be caring and empathetic to the troubles in life that their subjects are having. I think I could learn a thing or two from that when it comes to my interactions with Side B guys. We have similar stories and backgrounds as these guys despite our different present life choices. And as Will pointed out, we see the tragedy of some of them being completely mistreated by church communities and what damage its caused.
To simply ignore it and write it off as “gay agenda pushing trash” is rather ignorant. As much as we disagree with these people on what they do with their sexuality, they have something worthwhile to say. And the better we understand them, the easier it will be to build bridges, have dialogue, and have civil debate. They’re not completely evil Sith Lords that need to be vaporized with holy water.
Ugg. Who has called it “gay agenda pushing trash”? Maybe I missed that comment? Saying there is an agenda is not the same thing as dehumanizing or demeaning the people involved.
And who has even remotely suggested something worthy of your last sentence?
Well I think some folks here have accused it of pushing a gay agenda or glorifying the gay agenda in that vein. And when it comes to the last sentence, I feel that’s just the general attitude of some folks both in the comments sections here, and from other Christians.
Its like with this blog and the past few other posts like I Want to Be LGBTQ, and Should We Celebrate Pride Month. The instant reaction to the mere prospect of identifying and relating with aspects of the Side A world has been like “HISSSSSSSS!!!! He hath spoken in the black tongues of Mordor!”
I think I may be closer to side Y, if I even remember what it correctly means. To be honest, the whole side thing is getting a bit complicated and as ridiculous as adding umpteen additional letters after LGBTQ.
But what does this add to the conversation?
Brother, you have me pegged incorrectly. If that’s what side Y is, then maybe I’m not it. I don’t think of sexuality in that way. I am just a Christian, Plut. A Christian that endeavors to seek justice, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God. To encourage my brother. To walk with him in pursuit of holiness. To keep myself unspotted from the world. To lay no stumblingblocks in my brother’s way. If that makes me “hypervigilant”, then I guess I’m guilty as charged. But viewing attractions as sin of themselves, this is not true of me.
Plut, I love you, brother. Whatever our seeming disagreements. You need to know that I do. You need to know that you are a man of immense value to God and to me. I mean this with all of my heart.
…. What are you talking about? I’m not talking about the different sides or labels.
I have only watched Queer Eye once, and that time was actually at Tom Zuniga’s house and at his request. I enjoyed the show and I would say it is ok for anyone to watch, just accept the fish but throw out the bones.
It definitely focused on the gay men caring about others and showing an appropriate love to a straight guy. They used their talents to genuinely help him. Still, there were lots of references to gay culture and the guys did overdo the campiness.
The only objectionable part was when one of the guys strongly hinted about his lust for a good-looking muscular guy whom he called “Superman”. I think many of us could identify with the feeling, we just resist the temptation and remain silent.
Watching Queer Eye with you, Marshall, will forever be one of my pop culture highlights.
I too have concerns about the direction of this site, and this post is a good example. If we are living for Christ and leaving out sin behind, why on earth would we want to watch a show glorifying and approving of the very sin we are trying to avoid? I cannot believe that it wouldn’t hinder one’s spiritual walk on some level, and one’s sexual struggles.
And why put a post like this up? It is bad enough that some of you guys watch a show no Christian should view, especially SSA Christians, but why put it here where you could cause guys weaker than you to stumble? Is that even a consideration when you guys post…..how it will affect your readers, and if it could possibly trip someone up?
This show will not draw you closer to God, and a constant diet of gay affirming shows is likely to eventually pull you back into the gay life.
I have felt your site was to help and encourage others with SSA, but posts like these do not do it and risk doing the opposite of what you are trying to do…. and you don’t seem to even give credence to those pointing out those dangers. I am very disappointed that you guys are watching and defending this show, but even more that you are advocating watching it on a site for struggling SSA guys, and defending the show and watching it to those you are supposed to be helping. The Bible talks about causing a weaker brother to fall, and also about not offending your brother….this post and some others definitely are at risk of doing both.
I know you will most likely delete this post, as some of you cannot seem to handle much disagreement, or expression of concerns….which is really sad. You should be open to that with the platform you have, and you should be concerned about the effect your posts could have on guys struggling with this very tough issue and sin.
Disagreement is fine. We’ve had plenty of disagreements going back 2 1/2 years. Posts only get deleted for violating our established comment policy, accessible above the comment section and on our About page.
Tom, don’t you think a good rule to follow for any disagreement on either side is to treat the other person as if you are face to face?
It is so easy just to erupt by text because you can, when if you were face to face you’d probably be a litte more circumspect.
The Lord knows I don’t agree with everything, but if I make it personal, I lose your ear and the opportunity to be heard myself. We both lose.
I believe in defending truth and doing so vigorously. But the cause of truth is seldom advanced by being ungracious.
Have you ever actually watched an episode of Queer Eye, Luke?
Absolutely, Luke. You are 100 percent correct on this issue. Thank you for saying it. I did watch a twenty-minute sample of the show on YouTube (so I’m not criticized for not sampling what I’m critiquing). The point is obvious to me. It’s all about normalizing the gay lifestyle, so we’ll all be like, “Oh, see. They’re nice guys. No biggie. Doesn’t matter what they do in the bedroom.” There are some moral lessons like having good self-esteem and making time for the people in your life. Some of that is good except it of course bypasses any biblical compass.
While it’s true that we don’t see the bedroom, I saw many innuendos and little references (and many surprising stereotypes that don’t help their cause) that most certainly showcase the gay mindset. Like the guys cross paths with some stranger. “Oh, he’s so hot. Oh my. Oh, oh.” Like the food guy sees an elongated mushroom and says it looks like a phallus. Giggle. The fashion guy wants to help the straight guy with his clothes. Why? “Yes, buddy, let’s get you laid tonight. Hee hee.” Then there were a few uses of the curse word for dung. Really?
This is so helpful for those of us struggling with SSA? This is going to help us not sexualize events and people? I’m afraid this is going to do the opposite. Have a mind in the gutter? This show is NOT going to help you.
I have a few suggestions. To get a refresher on what God loves and hates, crack “The Pursuit of Holiness” or “The Practice of Godliness” by Jerry Bridges. Pursue clean food for the mind and soul. Be countercultural. If you want wholesome entertainment, don’t listen to what our culture promotes. Bypass most prime-time shows and check out reruns of old classic TV (back when they couldn’t even use the d-word). Not this. By promoting this show, you’re actually backing an agenda that should be the complete opposite of what we are all about here. Curious about other content in this show? See https://www.commonsensemedia.org/tv-reviews/queer-eye
Doubt the agenda of the show? Even the secular world sees it. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/07/arts/television/queer-eye-netflix-review.html
My dear brother, Drew. Thank you.
Will: “Let me begin by saying this: I
recognize this post will be a struggle for many reading.”
Ashley: “It obviously takes on the world’s view of sex…Plus the
guys are…like little puppies…If you think about it, even the show’s gimmick is
about them being gay…It tells THE WHOLE story.
Not just the gay parts…”
John:
“The negativity would be that it could trigger various men here and
would not be helpful for them. There is also the possibility that part of the
intent of the show (as some have suggested) is to soft pedal sin.”
Eugene: “I’ve only watched one full episode
(I share my parents’ Netflix account and I don’t want them scratching their
heads over the video watch history)…”
Marshall: “Still, there were lots of references to gay culture and the guys did overdo the
campiness….The only objectionable part was when one of the guys strongly hinted
about his lust for a good-looking muscular guy whom he called ‘Superman’.”
All of these tacit admissions from viewers of the show, combined with jonevan’s own concerns are enough to let me know to steer clear, whether or not I would find it personally triggering myself.
Hey Will! I had never seen the show before (we do not have television), but I did catch that episode when I was visiting another YOBber out of town last week. It was a positive experience in that Tammye is a great lady, and it was good to see her interactions with the five men. It was also good (though terribly sad) to hear of the negative church experiences of two of the men and Tammye’s son. The negativity would be that it could trigger various men here and would not be helpful for them. There is also the possibility that part of the intent of the show (as some have suggested) is to soft pedal sin. Even if that is partially true, I do not believe that is reason to dismiss the show as off limits for any believer. There is still some truth to be gleaned as well as demonstrations of our common humanity. I found both and wept repeatedly during the episode. My tears did not in any way suggest that my sexual ethic was weakening.
As to your next question of having experienced shame and loneliness in church setting, I don’t think anyone here would appreciate a 20 page diatribe from me, so I will let that wait until I meet some of you. Fortunately, I am in a small church community now where that is not my experience. Thank God! Same sexual ethics as in past churches, but none of the lack of transparency or graceless cherry picking of favorite sins as experienced before.
I have visited these parts before under another name. Thanks in part to this community, my identity is far less
“Mistaken” (or at least a little less), so I am now using my true name. Thanks for posting Will. I am not going to worry about you “going liberal,” but we may have a healthy debate about Calving someday.
[…] YOB: Why I Like “Queer Eye” […]
I used to watch the old show on Bravo in the early 2000s. I was an out and proud gay man at that time, and I’ll be honest that my hope and intention, at that time watching the show, was to observe and celebrate the straight people coming to respect openly gay men. Even now, almost two decades later, I still desire gay people to be respected, but in a much less superficial way.
The big difference now is that back then, a huge part of it was respect for sexual choices. Now, after finding Christ, I want gay people to be accepted for being human and given dignity that sometimes we don’t even show ourselves or to each other. We all deserve dignity.
I still have many openly gay friends, some who are married to one another. I love and respect them. It tears me up inside when I focus on eternity because I don’t want to believe anyone I love is on a path to destruction. I personally was on a path to destruction, so I repented and finally recognized sex outside of hetero marriage as sinful. I want to come to a point where I can evangelize like I’m supposed to without stripping anyone of their dignity, including my good friends. It’s going to be a long journey.
I never really thought I’d hear about this show, considering that I’ve gone out of my way to ignore anything about it. As a Christian who sees the sin in homosexuality, I couldn’t see a reason to care about a show that is so blatantly affirming of it.
However, I’m glad I heard this perspective, and I’m glad that there are Christains willing to risk so much of their reputation to show love for people. It was what Jesus did.
I’m not going to watch the show though. I can’t stand how utterly flamboyant they are. I know there was a whole argument in the comments about whether that’s ok or not; I’m not interested in the argument, I just personally find it really really annoying.
[…] Basically I’ve become a walking Queer Eye episode. […]